I don't use Ubuntu, I use Debian. I tried Kubuntu for a while but I was never really happy with it.
I don't want to be negative, but Ubuntu just doesn't cut the souce with me. When people ask why I don't use Ubuntu, I can come up with many reasons. I've decided to list them here and then perhaps the Ubuntu community can address them within the Ubuntu and related distributions, and win me over. But, I don't expect hat will happen since I am so happy with Debian Sid as it is.
Over all, I want to express that this saddens me. I'd love to see more Linux on the desktop, but I really don't want to suggest to people that Ubuntu is the way to go. I feel that KDE has more going for it and that Ubuntu has too many problems. Of course, I am just one person, but here are my main grips with Ubuntu.
(1) Ubuntu packages aren't compatible with Debian yet are called '.deb packages' — makes it very painful to find a Debian package some times, and it's not useful for new users to have two distro packages that are named the same but incompatible. Yes, Red Hat, Fedora, SuSE, and OpenSuse (and others, I am sure) all use the .rpm format, but they have this same issue and that doesn't make it OK. Please, rename your packages .ubu or keep them compatible.
(2) I really dislike Gnome desktop and feel its extremely limiting in what you can do with it and how the defaults are usually poor decisions, IMHO. As long as Gnome is the main focus of Ubuntu, I am not interested.
(3) Ubuntu it's incredibly unstable and has issues that no other Linux distro that I've tried has. Others may disagree, but in my experience the Ubuntu packages have many issues that don't affect other distros. Check this bug that has been open for over a year https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/119730
(4) as a KDE user, the Kubuntu is horrible; lots of KDE people feel this way. If you want to try KDE, don't expect to really get a feel for it with Kubuntu.
(5) KDE doesn't get much attention even though its claimed to be an equal desktop. Kubuntu also gets the short end when any new system tools are created by the Ubuntu devs or community. Free Software shouldn't focus on excluding a major DE from innovations.
(6) I've never once had a successful upgrade from one release to the next. This may be because I've installed 3rd party repos, but if needed apps aren't provided by the distro, what is a user to do? Once even without these 3rd party repos it still failed. I've never had this issue with Debian.
(7) Cananocal releases LTS versions with new software like PulseAudio, which has caused a lot of issues for people; a LTS should NOT have untested software.
(8) Bug reports go for a long time with out being addressed, and then the response becomes, "The next version of Ubuntu is out; upgrade to that and tell us if it is fixed". Bugs should be fixed in this release, not pushed off to the next. What if a user's environment demands that they stay at release 8.04LTS or whatever? Here is one example of many like this that have been responded to bug reports https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/118842/comments/15
(9) Bug reports then get closed due to lack of attention, when its the developer's lack of attention that defines this, in my opinion and experience.
(10) I'll file a wish for newer versions of software, and the release team would respond with, "Too late for the next release, we'll get the one after that" — when (1) each release should have been synced with newer software already, but it's not happening, and (2) they'll then miss the software upgrade for the next release also. Here is a good example of this, with each comment promising it'll be available for the next release https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kmediafactory/+bug/194438
These are only 10 of the issues that I've had with Ubuntu, but they're enough to keep me away. I am sure others have disagreements with me over some of these issues, and I would like to see Free Software and Linux succeed but it seems to me that Cananocal needs some major improvements.
21 comments:
Get ready for death threats from Ubuntu fanboys. That said, I agree with you; I've given up on Ubuntu.
I love 8 & 6.
Especially if you combine them together it means that absolutely MUST reinstall/format every 6 months.
Did anyone acuse MS of forcing you to reinstall after some time? Yes, Linux users do. Its one of the most common complaints against Windows.
Bottom line is, Windows installations live more than Ubuntu ones.
I'm sick and tired of hearing about how great Ubuntu is for beginners, yet, if the scripts don't get your hardware right, you have no choice but to hack files and use the command line. Though this is reasonable for the experienced user, for beginners this in inexcusable. We've moved past the age of the command line long ago. Personally, I steer most new users toward Mandriva or PCLinuxOS. Both use Mandy's DrakeTools and it's perfect for setting up your system when the scripts get it wrong, and it happens. Ubuntu offers nothing on the level of tools like that.
Lastly, I can't stand the arrogant attitude as if they're not competing with other distros, but rather with Mac and Windows. Are you serious? Exactly what user experience do they offer above and beyond normal Gnome? They're not in a class by themselves...
Very well written. Ive always found ubuntu to be over hyped and even inferior to just about every other major distro. Although I generally have the same opinion of Debian and pretty much every Debian based distro.
>Lastly, I can't stand the arrogant attitude as if they're not competing with other distros, but rather with Mac and Windows. Are you serious? Exactly what user experience do they offer above and beyond normal Gnome? They're not in a class by themselves...
Very well said! And they develop almost nothing themselves (ok, they "invented" notifications), their contribution to upstream is minimal, they "rip off" everything they can from other distros, they plan really hard to go commercial, they distance themselves from their own community more and more, they give themselves titles like "master-of-the-universe" - primarly kids that think python and C# are answers to everyhing. Bad ego trip. Too many kids and ex-MS employees there. Brrr...
I have had many more stability issues running SID than I have ever had running Ubuntu. And I run them both.
No one in their right mind mixes debs from different repositories, even between Stable and SID without expecting issues.
Kmediafactory existed in the Ubuntu repos for a year before it was packaged for Debian. And anyway DeVeDe is way better.
If you want newer versions of software you should have sought out GetDeb where you will find Ubuntu updates to hundreds of programs. The for the adventurous there are the PPA repositories for bleeding edge stuff.
My Ubuntu machine is running a 2.6.30 amd64 kernel and I am using Nvidia 185.18.14, there is no need for requests or waiting.
Your reasons are not real. You hate Ubuntu and love Debian. That is your choice.
I will have to give debian a try at some point and see how I feel about it. Since I'm a relative linux newbie (only ran SuSE for a while, and now I'm running ubuntu after vista drove me insane), I'm sure I will find something that I want that is in debian.
Why do you prefer KDE? That's a blog I'd love to read!
I agree with you on points (2), (4) and (5). As long as Ubuntu keeps GNOME as the default desktop, they will always have one less user.
I may also look at it again if Canonical gives equal leverage to Kubuntu, which is a much-crippled version of KDE.
Windows, in my opinion, isn't much better.
Copying files takes forever, it seems vista has more of a problem than XP.
Bugs...good luck, you would be better served writing your bugs on a wall outside as there is no real way to contact MS.
I've had no problems since 8/2007, except for the few that I had caused....I can live with that, but no problems if things are left to their own.....and that is through 3 upgrades and no issue.
So what do you recommend instead?
I agree with the last comment. I'm relatively new to linux, ubuntu was my first try, 1 and 1/2 year ago, since then I tried kubuntu, suse and debian, and none of them meet my needs as ubuntu do.
Since then, I've upgraded 3 times, and all of them were well succeeded. As you said, the third party software/repos upgrades between versions are a real issue, but this doesn't bother me so much.
BTW, I prefer Gnome over KDE, and I will love to hear why do you prefer KDE instead. There are lots of great apps in KDE, but I can have nearly all of them in ubuntu with no problems.
Yup, Ubuntu haters and Debian lovers (at the same time), count me in!
I think the problem with Ubuntu comes in multiple dimensions:
1. Software quality: Ubuntu is like the most inferior distro I know of. It offers nothing distinct from other distros, notably Debian, except a huge user base. Its software is neither bleeding edge (like Fedora) nor extremely stable (like Debian). In short, nothing to make it worth installing.
2. Kissing-up-to-Windows attitude: Ubuntu is like the most Windows-friendly distro. Argue to your heart content about pros and cons, but I dislike a system that dare not stand on its own.
3. Beginner's attitude: I don't know why, but I keep feeling that Ubuntu seeks to distant me from configure the system. It tries to do everything for me (and fails miserably so; all distros fail, btw, including Windows, it's just a price of bleeding edge hardware), which annoys the heck out of me.
4. UGLY THEME: I don't know about the next version, but Ubuntu's default theme is UGLY. Let's compare Ubuntu and Fedora (since I never use GUI in Debian): both use Gnome, but Fedora's theme is always more pleasing. Maybe because the annoying brown color, but whatever. It's ugly. Much uglier than, um, Windows default theme.
5. "Master-of-the-universe" attitude: I hate it when Ubuntu people start to tell me that "Linux = Ubuntu". What the heck? Okay, first, the system is called, for the nth time, GNU/Linux. Second, since when did Ubuntu become THE GNU/Linux distro? Excuse me, but I wiped out all Ubuntu installation around me. Nowadays, only Fedora and Debian will do.
6. Lack of commitment: many distros have strong commitment. An example is gNewSense and Fedora to freedom. This can also be felt in Debian and Gentoo. Linux Mint provides superior ease of usage. What does Ubuntu commit to? Expand market share? (thank you, but not thank you). Nothing. It is willing to incorporate anything into the distro, and badly so. Lack of commitment is always a bad sign.
In conclusion: I stopped using Ubuntu altogether. My desktops and laptops run Fedora; occasionally, I would install Mint on my family's PCs; my servers are in love with Debian. Ubuntu? Well, I don't speak African languages, you know. I prefer European or Asian ones.
Wow, I just can't believe this post. This must be a joke.
1. Software quality: Ubuntu is like the most inferior distro I know of. It offers nothing distinct from other distros, notably Debian, except a huge user base. Its software is neither bleeding edge (like Fedora) nor extremely stable (like Debian). In short, nothing to make it worth installing.
Let me rephrase this. Ubuntu is more stable than fedora and not as out-dated as debian. And a large user base is bad?
No difference from debian? How about the fact that they provide an easy installation, in a single cd, with sensible default apps, and back it up with a good community. How about the balance of pragmatism with the wondeful ideology of debian.
>2. Kissing-up-to-Windows attitude: Ubuntu is like the most Windows-friendly distro. Argue to your heart content about pros and cons, but I dislike a system that dare not stand on its own.
Hah. How do you make that? I thought opensuse was the most windows friendly distro. And since when is interoperability a negative issue.
>3. Beginner's attitude: I don't know why, but I keep feeling that Ubuntu seeks to distant me from configure the system. It tries to do everything for me (and fails miserably so; all distros fail, btw, including Windows, it's just a price of bleeding edge hardware), which annoys the heck out of me.
And just a few posts back somebody said ubuntu uses the command line too much. Make up your mind will you or is this a pathological jealousy of ubuntu's success.
>4. UGLY THEME: I don't know about the next version, but Ubuntu's default theme is UGLY. Let's compare Ubuntu and Fedora (since I never use GUI in Debian): both use Gnome, but Fedora's theme is always more pleasing. Maybe because the annoying brown color, but whatever. It's ugly. Much uglier than, um, Windows default theme.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Themes can be changed very easily.
>5. "Master-of-the-universe" attitude: I hate it when Ubuntu people start to tell me that "Linux = Ubuntu". What the heck? Okay, first, the system is called, for the nth time, GNU/Linux. Second, since when did Ubuntu become THE GNU/Linux distro? Excuse me, but I wiped out all Ubuntu installation around me. Nowadays, only Fedora and Debian will do.
Linux instead of GNU/Linux is just semantic convenience. Most people need and value ideologists, but prefer to be pragmatists.
>6. Lack of commitment: many distros have strong commitment. An example is gNewSense and Fedora to freedom. This can also be felt in Debian and Gentoo. Linux Mint provides superior ease of usage. What does Ubuntu commit to? Expand market share? (thank you, but not thank you). Nothing. It is willing to incorporate anything into the distro, and badly so. Lack of commitment is always a bad sign.
Choice is valuable. Ubuntu has arguably made linux popular, that is useful. So Linux Mint building on ubuntu is ok, but ubuntu building on debian with pretty much the same aims is bad.
In conclusion: I stopped using Ubuntu altogether. My desktops and laptops run Fedora; occasionally, I would install Mint on my family's PCs; my servers are in love with Debian. Ubuntu? Well, I don't speak African languages, you know. I prefer European or Asian ones.
It's your choice. But the reasons you present are invalid.
I'm a computer user since DOS 3.00 and Windows 3.0 times (late 1980s).
I used all the Windows and OS/2 versions. I also tried different Linux distros time to time, but I didn't completely happy any of them.
I am using Ubuntu more than one year. Jaunty Jackalope is running on one PC, and Karmic Koala (Alpha) is running on another PC at home happily.
I had no headache about upgrading from older to newer versions of Ubuntu, or installing software, or anything.
i agree with points 4&5
kubuntu is a joke. unless you are an experienced kde user who knows how to configure everything to make things finally work, i wouldn't recommend kubuntu to anyone. kde is fine, but the default settings are just dumb (single click? come on...).
OK, this is safely classified as YASBP [yet another silly blog post], whingeing about this or that open source software project. People who DARE to provide FREE stuff? The cheek, eh?
Are we embarrassed yet?
In this case we have a classic example of 'ubuntu-envy', as in small-minded people who envy the apparent success of ubuntu because they feel it somehow detracts from their designated, favorite linux distro of the day (OTD).
I know, I know, ubuntu is enormously popular, and this makes it Very Suspicious.
Truth be told, though, ubuntu is scarcely different from any other major (or for that matter, minor) linux distro.
It pretty much shares all the same software, right down to the kernel.
So, what's the beef?
Ubuntu generally pays a little better attention to the details.
I know, that is deeply, deeply offensive. As in, 'how dare they' ?
But here's the thing: nobody is FORCING you to use ubuntu. If you prefer something else, please use it.
Just pretty please, STFU. Because, your ill-informed flames don't reflect well on FOSS.
No offense, good luck, and have a nice life.
Many thanks!
I've tried a few versions of linux and always come back to ubuntu, upgrades are easy and no problems at all for me and my family, I stopped using windows a few years ago...(isnt that the point) and will never return to windows, I use virtualbox in ubuntu and try lots of different flavours... I like david smiths comment...Hear Hear...to each his own, sincerely ... a very happy linux user currently enjoying ubuntu 904
Points about new software also apply to Debian! Especially new software! If one wants new software, one should forget about Debian, Ubuntu, fedora and go to e.g. Arch Linux. Just like id did!
I don't have such strong, almost religious, feelings about Ubuntu as OP does. I think its relative success and resultant publicity is good for Linux (sorry GNU/Linux :) and desktop community in general as it generates awareness about alternative to Windows. This doesn't mean that Ubuntu is the best "consumer" desktop distro. It's not. It's also not the most creative, stable, usable or sleek. But by far it's not the worst among GNOME centric "consumer" distros.
But as a KDE person I agree that Kubuntu is an unkempt stepchild. That's why I run Mandriva 1009.1 on both my home desktop, laptop and wife's Eee netbook. Btw, on all 3 hardware platforms Mandriva proved to be much easier to configure than Ubuntu and came closer to the "out of the box working" experience. Latter was especially evident on a netbook. In general I think Mandriva, at least in its latest incarnations, deserves much more recognition vs Ubuntu, Fedora and SuSe.
Archlinux FTW. I use it right now with KDE4 and it rules. Stable and fast. Not to mention, we have pacman (the package manager). Wacka wacka bitches!
Lefty,
I think all of your points are invalid. Essentially, you're bitching about the ecology of free software. Ubuntu made enough of an impression with Dell to be included on netbooks and to be available for order on other workstations. So far, the upgrades have been relatively easy. I do think that the changes in the updates should be stated more clearly, I have the same gripe about Windows.
There is always a way to scratch your itch with any Linux distro. That's the point, really. You have to make a decision about which gyrations you are willing to make to get to your workstation Utopia. Currently, I am working off of several CrunchBang installations (which are Ubuntu based). So far, I have replaced the network-manager, the boot splash, the gdm(with SLiM), and the session-manager. It now runs pretty much exactly as I would please.
Lastly, if you are going to gripe about something, please edit your post. You look like an incompetent boob when you whine and commit thirty spelling errors in a single blog post.
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