2.6.30 Kernel and Sidux
Sidux Linux, based on Debian Sid (the 'unstable' branch) and touted as being 'Debian Hot & Spicy!', has released their 2.6.30 kernel with a huge surprise.
If you read around the web about the release of this new kernel, nearly every article discusses increased performance and a large number of new drivers for the 2.6.30 kernel release. But within Sidux, the kernel developer slh has decided to remove all non-Free (Libre) firmware from the Sidux kernels. The result is poor hardware performance within Sidux 2.6.30 kernels, at least thus far according to rants on the OFTC irc network on the #sidux and #smxi channels.
On my own system, my ATi Radeon card has much worse performance (under the Sidux 2.6.30 kernel) with the XOrg radeon driver or the XOrg radeonhd driver, both of which were suppose to be improved with the 2.6.30 kernel. Perhaps my drivers need to be at a newer version for the improvement to be seen, but there shouldn't be a regression. IRC forums suggested that I download the firmware from the internet (providing a link for me, even) but performance didn't improve. Graphics are still choppy when scrolling, and my fan was running higher than ever -- until I rebooted back into 2.6.29 for now.
Removing the non-Free bits from a kernel does increase the "Free Software" aspect of a kernel, which I do appreciate and support. But at the cost of hardware functionality, for many users, without warning? Had I wanted to be that in tune with Free/Libre software I could be running gNewSense Linux. Debian has long been a promoter of Software Libre and had struck a balance with FLOSS and closed firmware within the kernel; Sidux was supposed to be as close to Debian as possible, and thereforseemed to followed the same 'binary bits' philosophy, but no more.
Debian itself isn't yet at the 2.6.30 kernel and I don't know what they will do. Sidux may fix this, perhaps by a seperate firmware package to install, or perhaps the pressure will force slh to put the firmware back in, or perhaps another kernel will be available in the repositories. If something doesn't happen, however, I see Sidux alianating many of its user base.
If you read around the web about the release of this new kernel, nearly every article discusses increased performance and a large number of new drivers for the 2.6.30 kernel release. But within Sidux, the kernel developer slh has decided to remove all non-Free (Libre) firmware from the Sidux kernels. The result is poor hardware performance within Sidux 2.6.30 kernels, at least thus far according to rants on the OFTC irc network on the #sidux and #smxi channels.
On my own system, my ATi Radeon card has much worse performance (under the Sidux 2.6.30 kernel) with the XOrg radeon driver or the XOrg radeonhd driver, both of which were suppose to be improved with the 2.6.30 kernel. Perhaps my drivers need to be at a newer version for the improvement to be seen, but there shouldn't be a regression. IRC forums suggested that I download the firmware from the internet (providing a link for me, even) but performance didn't improve. Graphics are still choppy when scrolling, and my fan was running higher than ever -- until I rebooted back into 2.6.29 for now.
Removing the non-Free bits from a kernel does increase the "Free Software" aspect of a kernel, which I do appreciate and support. But at the cost of hardware functionality, for many users, without warning? Had I wanted to be that in tune with Free/Libre software I could be running gNewSense Linux. Debian has long been a promoter of Software Libre and had struck a balance with FLOSS and closed firmware within the kernel; Sidux was supposed to be as close to Debian as possible, and thereforseemed to followed the same 'binary bits' philosophy, but no more.
Debian itself isn't yet at the 2.6.30 kernel and I don't know what they will do. Sidux may fix this, perhaps by a seperate firmware package to install, or perhaps the pressure will force slh to put the firmware back in, or perhaps another kernel will be available in the repositories. If something doesn't happen, however, I see Sidux alianating many of its user base.
posted by lefty.crupps @ 07:18
14 Comments:
At 11 June, 2009 11:02 ,
SaigonNezumi(Kevin) said...
Well, on a positive, this new move could encourage users to compile their own kernels.
Sidux could be the next Gentoo per se :-)
At 12 June, 2009 02:57 ,
THD said...
As far as I know, Debian is also in the process of removing all non-free firmware from the kernel into seperate firmware-packages, so Sidux is simply a step ahead of them.
At 14 June, 2009 03:16 ,
Anonymous said...
"IRC forums suggested that I download the firmware from the internet (providing a link for me, even) but performance didn't improve."
I don't know what this means. What Radeon card uses firmware?
And anyway, how does removing firmware from the kernel affect the performance of your video card? It might stop some network devices from working and the like, but graphics?
Plus, the firmware that 2.6.29 uses can also be used in 2.6.30 if it's in /lib/firmware.
If not then maybe sidux removed the ability for the kernel to load firmware at all, which seems unlikely.
Sounds to me like it's more an issue to do with internal kernel changes like GEM and an Xorg driver which doesn't take advantage of them yet. A newer Xorg might solve your problems.
-c
At 15 June, 2009 06:27 ,
shevegen said...
Many years ago I was using kanotix heavily (until kano had less time for the project and it started to grind down to a halt. I am not complaining here btw, just stating a fact, since i grew impatient waiting ...)
I followed sidux partially, but I was already disillusioned with debian a long time ago - dont get me wrong, the _community_ is nice, debianforum.de is a GREAT place. The guideline is ok as well.
But as a distribution, and as a "role model" for development I dont think it can really appeal to the "geeks" anymore. In times of wikipedia twitter and github, debian feels oldschool. Ubuntu brainstorm is a cool idea - where does debian offer ANYTHING remotely similar?
The referrence to gentoo here as first comment is interesting but gentoo itself also has (other) problems. Am I the only one who thinks that their ebuilds are a giant,ugly per-package hack? Or that something is wrong when a great many people jump off into paludis?
The by far most important thing in the year 2009 is INFORMATION.
With enough information I can go and solve a problem. People need to abandon models which lack this transparency.
Anyway, I am sure http://sidux.com/ will comment about this specific situation about the firmware in the next some days to come.
At 15 June, 2009 07:29 ,
Anonymous said...
sidux, with its 'rolling releases' is a great distro for tinkerers who like to get 'bleeding edge' code a few days, weeks or even months ahead of more stable, timed-release distributions -- with all the risk that that entails (generally speaking, a few minutes perusing their manual, and being comfortable with the cli).
Where they get into trouble is when they start to imagine that is good enough for the general public, and they have even occasionally entertained fantasies of competing with Ubuntu, a meme that mercifully has fallen silent of late...
At 15 June, 2009 08:54 ,
Anonymous said...
Sidux is crap. Boycott sidux...
At 15 June, 2009 08:56 ,
Anonymous said...
With respect to the sidux team, some of their moderators are quite unpleasant and elitist. I too will call for a sidux boycott.
At 15 June, 2009 09:00 ,
Anonymous said...
I have been using pure Debian KDE which does not use non-free software/drivers and there are some issues with performance. You do have the option, however, to use non-free drivers by editing your sources.list and adding the correct non-free repo. I too dislike sidux.
At 15 June, 2009 09:01 ,
Anonymous said...
gnu/sidux forever
At 15 June, 2009 10:38 ,
susa2 said...
Because of elitist, it just annoy the unqualified comments!
In the right questions, there are professional and prompt assistance extended
sidux on a high
At 15 June, 2009 21:28 ,
Blog of helios said...
As off topic as it can be Lefty, let me tell you that I agree wholly with what you said on the blog of helios about Ubuntu. I have some real problems with not only the distro but the elitist attitude that oozes out of the forums and such. I picture them soon in the future marching around with black arm bands and asking everyone for their distro papers.
Ken
blog of helios
At 16 June, 2009 01:53 ,
tuxhelper said...
Most people want more. I know it's sad. Some people want choice. I know sounds difficult..
Hopefully, this is not a glitch and sidux moves towards such independence. Allowing the user full control over what they wish to install. Do I think the developers are capable of creating scripts to assist you in getting your hardware to work ?
Wither way gNewSense & linux-libre will lead the way and all others, who cares..
They say they want freedom but what they reall want is $free$
At 16 June, 2009 18:18 ,
HeavensRevenge said...
Actually all linux's with any bit of GNU in them can't legally have non free firmware blobs installed by default, distro's have had to shut down via hardware vendors specifically because of IP crap which prevent this sort of goodness, blame the hardware vendors, not the guys who are blazing the trail to how freedom really is, and not your childish *buntu dreams with the whole distro community babying your ass.
At least sidux allows easy kernel hopping instead of completely replacing your previous kernel with the latest one, we allow choice, not some way we think it should be, only what is to come. If u can't handle the heat, get outta the fire of our hot n' spicy bleeding edge distro :P U can call me whatever but to rip on slh for having a conscience is plain childish, do what you want, not every distro has the luxury of being able to handle being sued to our knees using binary and patent encumbered firmwares as a feature built-in. I see the need to use binary blobs of non-free firmwares as a bug, by not having real code to handle the functionality, which is what their there for, fill-ins till we get the code to replace it with.
At 17 June, 2009 18:35 ,
Anonymous said...
Here a comment of a sidux-team member:
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 2641
Location: w3
Status: Offline
The short article is somewhat misleading, it leaves the impression that we support less hardware than before, which is not true.
There was a timing issue between our new 2.6.30 kernels and the linux-firmware package containing some firmware blobs which have been removed from the vanilla kernel for all distributions, not just Debian or sidux. We have discussed the issue already in our forums and IRC, a simple HowTo is provided to our users until the Debian package is complete.
"So, all that is relevant just for those of us who own hardware in need of such firmware, and who want to test our early 2.6.30 kernels before the upcoming sidux 2009-02 release. The nature of sidux is to go through major upstream changes before they hit other distributions. In our final releases those problems are always fixed, though.
Greetings,
Chris"
So problems will be fixed with the next release
greetings
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